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A5 Chip in Tweaked Apple TV Still Manufactured by Samsung at 32nm

Earlier this week, we opened up the newly tweaked Apple TV to find a remarkably small A5 chip inside rather than an A5X as had been suspected from the device's software posted by Apple over a month ago.

Since that time, we've been talking with chip experts at Chipworks and Silicon-IP about the possibilities and have confirmed that, unlike in the previous Apple TV, this even smaller A5 does not use a stacked chip design involving the DRAM. We were unable to identify the chip to the left of the A5 in our unit due to illegible markings, but Chipworks has cracked open another unit and discovered Elpida DRAM in that location.

a5_2012_2013_comparison
Size comparison of 2012 A5 die with 2013 die

Despite continued rumors that Apple has been working very hard to transition away from Samsung for production of A-series chips, it appears that Apple has not yet been able to make that step on a mass production basis, as this new smaller A5 is still being fabbed by Samsung.

Chipworks has confirmed the die size of this new A5 at 6.1 mm x 6.2 mm, making it just over half the size of the 8.19 mm by 8.68 mm die in the previous version and less than a third the size of the original A5 introduced in the iPad 2 two years ago.

chipworks_a5_7498_die_markDespite confirmation that this new A5 chip is being manufactured by Samsung, Chipworks is still working to confirm the process node for the chip.
Is this new A5 a pipe-cleaner for TSMC in a lower volume (and risk) device? Is this new A5 a lower cost variant that we will see in new lower end phones from Apple? Is it a shrink from Samsung’s 32-nm process to their 28-nm? All were speculated upon, and this time around we can deny the first rumor by confirming that the chip has die markings consistent with the continued use of Samsung as the foundry partner. With respect to the second rumor, we can provide our $.02 that we do expect to see this chip in future Apple devices (such as a possible phone or iPod) because that behavior would be consistent with what they have done in the past. As for the die shrink, the math tells us that the size reduction is more than a simple shrink – some functionality has changed too. We’ll have to wait for the cross-section to see if it is fabbed on the smaller process.
Chipworks' Jim Morrison notes that it is unclear exactly what Apple's larger plans are for this chip, given that the Apple TV is not a high-enough volume product to justify creation of the new chip, so it is possible that Apple intends to use this A5 as a smaller, cheaper, and more power efficient chip for its rumored lower-cost iPhone or perhaps the next-generation of iPod touch. Apple made a similar move last year with the 32-nanometer A5, launching it in the Apple TV and a tweaked iPad 2 before rolling it out on a larger scale in the iPad mini and iPod touch later in the year.

Morrison also notes that, despite this new A5 being manufactured by Samsung, it could still be part of a pipe cleaner run to prepare for a move to TSMC, serving as a reference and fallback option for Apple as TSMC builds its own versions of it.

Also unclear is why Apple is not using a stacked DRAM design for this latest A5, although Silicon-IP's Kurt Wolf suggests that the company may simply still be lining up the process for building it with a package-on-package design. With the Apple TV having ample board space for the separate packages, Apple had little need to wait for a more compact stacked design.

Update 11:22 AM: Chipworks has now confirmed that the new A5 chip still uses the same 32-nanometer process seen on the previous generation, meaning that this nearly 50% smaller chip is truly a new device and not simply a shrink of the earlier design. Chipworks will have more information once it is able to obtain polysilicon die photos to view the layout of the chip.

chipworks_a5_7498_contacts

Related roundup: Apple TV

Top Rated Comments

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15 months ago
Apple and Samsung are like husband and wife. They fight every once in a while but they both need each other.
Rating: 8 Positives
15 months ago
Apple would be in deep trouble if it didn't have Samsung as a close partner.
Rating: 7 Positives
15 months ago

Apple and Samsung are like husband and wife. They fight every once in a while but they both need each other.


business partners have always sued each other and continued to do business

no one paid any attention to it until bloggers came on the scene to link to any halfway interesting story to keep the clicks going

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To an end user, a chip maker is just a provider of plumbing and there are many others who can do it . After all, Apple users already use graphics chips made by TSMC and CPUs made by Intel on their Macs, and iPhones and iPads with wireless chips made also by TSMC



Ideally, we would all be using the chips made by the most advanced process available now, which would be Intel, not Samsung. Not that Samsung is a bad chip maker by any means but I suspect the biggest advantage of Samsung is that they have worked together with Apple's engineering team for a long time. Also it's always a big risk when you move your big manufacturing away from your long time supplier.



It's not just a "vain" attempt though. Apple tells Samsung ahead of time what kind of processor they need and what quantity, that could be a valuable information for the competition. Just look at all the noise created by the analysts checking with the suppliers.


the process to manufacture a CPU is different for each design

and when you get to Apple's size going from 32nm to 28nm is a huge money saver so it makes sense to choose your manufacturing partners wisely.
Rating: 4 Positives
15 months ago
If Samsung are the best and most capable at manufacturing these components, it's not really in the users interest to have them made by anyone else is it?

Beyond the Samsung Vs Apple blurb, wouldn't we all appreciate Apple pumping out better hardware even if it is by Samsung?

Going to an inferior supplier will harm everyone with a potential worsened user experience. I've seen plenty of arguments on here about the different display manufacturers and units for example.

Do you want the best that Apple can offer or something slightly worse in a vain attempt at hurting a component supplier?
Rating: 4 Positives
15 months ago

A good reason to distance themselves from Samsung don't you think? They are not the only fish in the sea and Apple does not need to feed the Samsung engine any more. They have proven to not be friendly.


If Apple could possibly do without Samsung, that is exactly what would be happening.

But that is not reality.

The reality is that Apple is completely and totally dependent on Samsung as of now. And if Samsung were to pull the cork, Apple would founder and sink to the icy depths.
Rating: 3 Positives
15 months ago
Apple: "I'm home!"
Samsung: "Dinner is almost ready"
Apple: "Gimmie some of that good lovin now!"
Samsung: "Not in front of little Android and iOS"
Apple: "Kids go to bed!"
Samsung: "All you do is take my parts and when you're done you abuse me!"
Apple: "I gave you Android when I said I did not want anymore kids!"
Samsung: "Why are you so mean to me?"
Apple: "I bring home that bacon! Did you see my last quarterly report?"
Samsung: "We can work this out"
Apple: "I want a divorce and I'm going to sue you into oblivion. I'm also taking iOS with me!"
Rating: 2 Positives
15 months ago

But I think Apple does not want to be on the breast milk right now because they don't want Samsung pulling the carpet from under their feet.



Maybe Apple is thinking "better the devil ye know than two in the bush"?
Rating: 2 Positives
15 months ago

Chipworks' Jim Morrison notes that it is unclear exactly what Apple's larger plans are for this chip, given that the Apple TV is not a high-enough volume product to justify creation of the new chip, so it is possible that Apple intends to use this A5 as a smaller, cheaper, and more power efficient chip for its rumored lower-cost iPhone or perhaps the next-generation of iPod touch.


Or perhaps something even smaller like a watch? ;)
Rating: 2 Positives
15 months ago
Is this Samsung the next Microsoft? They seem to have a great deal of power. Almost a merger of Apple and Microsoft and powered by Google.
Rating: 2 Positives
15 months ago
I'm surprised after all the lawsuits that if you zoom in enough, there isn't a cartoon dick etched somewhere on the silicon or maybe just a swearword or 2 :apple:
Rating: 2 Positives

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