Apple's Phil Schiller Takes the Stand in Epic Games v. Apple Trial - MacRumors
Skip to Content

Apple's Phil Schiller Takes the Stand in Epic Games v. Apple Trial

Today marked the kickoff of the third week of the Epic Games v. Apple trial, and this week is notable because Epic has finished with its witnesses and we're now transitioning to Apple witnesses, including notable Apple executives.

fortnite apple featured
Apple Fellow and former marketing chief Phil Schiller, who is in charge of the App Store, took the stand today. Schiller will testify for up to nine hours, and will see the most questioning out of all of Apple's witnesses.

Schiller's hours of commentary will see him explaining just how the ‌App Store‌ works, the value of the ‌App Store‌ and Apple's SDKs, and why it's important that the judge side with Apple to maintain security and privacy for customers.

Questioning today started with the history of the iPhone, where Schiller made sure to say that security and privacy were the "most important" considerations when developing the iPhone. "This new computing device in your pocket means it's capable of new things," he said. "It's going to store information around our lives that we aren't used to having in our pocket."

Schiller covered how the ‌App Store‌ was set up from the beginning. The iPhone's software is "part of the product" that Apple creates, which is very different from Android, which is licensed to device makers. This licensing model "reduces quality" and the "speed of innovation," Schiller said in defense of Apple's setup.

Early questioning covered the transition from Apple-only apps on iPhone to third-party app support, and the security and privacy risks that Apple had to contend with. After the launch of the iPhone, Apple heard from developers that they wanted to create native apps, which Apple viewed as the first "demand for quality and security" on iPhone.

Apple has always been concerned about jailbroken apps and rogue app developers creating content without documented APIs, which could lead to "unreliable, unstable devices." He pointed out the importance of protecting users from malware to keep devices functioning. "This is your phone in your pocket that needs to work reliably," he said.

Schiller has also been speaking about Apple's ‌App Store‌ policy to treat developers large and small the same, and his testimony has included some interesting little tidbits. Apple wanted to charge $99 for the ‌App Store‌ developer program to prove that an app that's being worked on is "important" and that developers are "serious about making a quality app."

Notably, Schiller said that it costs Apple $50 million for every Worldwide Developers Conference event that it puts on annually, which was used as evidence that Apple's ‌App Store‌ profit margins are not as high as ‌Epic Games‌ has implied.

Schiller also said that 17 percent of the hundreds of thousands of games on the ‌App Store‌ use the freemium model, which was another interesting tidibt that was shared. 75 percent of games are free to download, and six percent require a payment.

On the topic of physical goods, Schiller said that in 2019, the ‌App Store‌ drove $400 billion+ in transactions like food delivery, Amazon purchases, Uber, and more, which are not subject to a 30 percent cut. According to Schiller, Apple does not take a cut of physical purchases because Apple can't guarantee they will actually arrive.

We'll undoubtedly hear additional interesting details from Schiller as his testimony continues, and later this week or early next week Apple CEO Tim Cook is expected to take the stand.

Popular Stories

iOS App Store General Feature Black

Apple Ordered to Open iPhone to Rival App Stores in Australia

Wednesday October 21, 2026 10:41 pm PDT by
Australia's Federal Court today ordered Apple to allow competing app stores, direct app downloads, and alternative payment services for Australian users from March 1, 2027. The orders follow the court's August 2025 finding that Apple misused its market power by restricting app distribution and payment options. They cover users whose Apple Account region is Australia, with Apple Developer...
Apple vs DOJ Feature

Developers Question Scope of Potential Apple Antitrust Settlement

Friday October 16, 2026 6:41 am PDT by
Developers are questioning whether a settlement of the U.S. government's antitrust case against Apple would meaningfully loosen the company's control over the iPhone, according to The Information. The report highlights PayPal and Epic Games among the companies that have raised concerns with the Department of Justice (DOJ). Officials have reportedly indicated that they favor a negotiated...
fortnite apple logo 2

Fortnite Returning to Australian App Store After Court Ruling

Wednesday October 21, 2026 10:55 pm PDT by
Fortnite will return to Australia's App Store today, Epic Games told Reuters, after a federal court ordered Apple to allow eligible Epic apps back onto the store. Australia was the only country excluded when Fortnite returned to the App Store worldwide in May. Epic held off while seeking further court orders addressing Apple's payment terms. The requirement to process Epic's compliant...

Top Rated Comments

jom3500 Avatar
71 months ago

How does it cost $50m to run WWDC. Some creative accounting going on there.
I was one of many people responsible for organizing the annual general meeting for Siemens in Germany which lasts around 5-8h (1d). We spent over 4 Mio. € every year for this small event. You have no idea what things you have to plan and take into consideration. It‘s really not that easy
Score: 22 Votes (Like | Disagree)
71 months ago

Given the interest in this case they could at least provide a better sound quality feed.
The court doesn't support lossless audio, either.
Score: 16 Votes (Like | Disagree)
71 months ago
Everyone trying to figure out where that $50m is going, and only focusing on Apple people costs? You're all missing some pretty hefty lines off that invoice!


* Entire venue hire (probably best part of 2-3 weeks solid for setup, event, tear down)
* AV set-up and crew, not just for the main keynote, but all those breakout sessions too. Most large venues come as an empty shell. You have to hire everything from carpets to cabling, as well as your lighting, staging and screens...
* Physical environment - Apple brand the sh*t out of that venue. Those full glass building wraps they've done won't come cheap.
* Keynote production - intro videos, product videos, etc, etc
* Keynote streaming/broadcasting - Apple will be having to hire and dedicate some pretty big resources to simultaneously broadcast WWDC live around the world. Quite possibly involving hiring saterlite or two.
* Breakout session recording and editing - over 100 seperate seminars filmed, edited, etc
* Catering for several thousand people for 5 event days and multiple set-up/tear down days.
* All the merch and promo callateral they'll be handing out.
* And so much more!

An event of this scale, I can see it totalling up pretty big in the end. But just because it 'costs' $50million, doesn't mean that's the bottom line as Apple will be covering some of that with the ticket sales.
Score: 12 Votes (Like | Disagree)
71 months ago

$50mil for a week event?
It's probably not just the week event, but also lot of preparation prior that event.
Score: 11 Votes (Like | Disagree)
GSWForever8 Avatar
71 months ago
Wow. These developers are so greedy. After all, they need money to improve Xcode and other things like that, as well as maintaining the App Store. 30% is nothing compared to traditional stores. Dang, Epic and other companies just want money, that's all.
Score: 10 Votes (Like | Disagree)
ArPe Avatar
71 months ago

There’s no way it costs $50 MILLION to put on a developers conference. Apple could rent out the whole convention center for a month for that much $$$. It’s also driving distance from Apple campus so it’s not like they’re flying their engineers in from halfway across the world.
$50 million includes the cost of preparing for ONE YEAR. Prepping, redecorating, presentations, employees, media production, event space, travel plans for guests, etc etc etc etc
Score: 9 Votes (Like | Disagree)
Latest Stories
Apple Requiring Developers to Disclose Location Sharing and Dating Features in Apps
Apple Requiring Developers to Disclose Location Sharing and Dating Features in Apps
5 hours ago
Apple's Q4 2026 Earnings Call Takeaways
Apple's Q4 2026 Earnings Call Takeaways
5 hours ago
Apple Dodges Question on More Price Hikes as Memory Costs Climb
Apple Dodges Question on More Price Hikes as Memory Costs Climb
6 hours ago
Apple CEO Ternus Says iPhone Duo Shortages Have No End Date in Sight
Apple CEO Ternus Says iPhone Duo Shortages Have No End Date in Sight
7 hours ago
Apple Reports 4Q 2026 Results: $30.7B Profit on $114.5B Revenue
Apple Reports 4Q 2026 Results: $30.7B Profit on $114.5B Revenue
8 hours ago
Early Black Friday Brings Steep Price Drops on Apple's Latest iPhone Cases
Early Black Friday Brings Steep Price Drops on Apple's Latest iPhone Cases
11 hours ago
John Ternus Hosting His First Earnings Call as Apple CEO Today
John Ternus Hosting His First Earnings Call as Apple CEO Today
12 hours ago
Here's What Spotify Looks Like on Apple's HomeView
Here's What Spotify Looks Like on Apple's HomeView
13 hours ago
iOS 27.2.1 Coming Soon, iOS 27.3 Beta Likely Available Tomorrow
iOS 27.2.1 Coming Soon, iOS 27.3 Beta Likely Available Tomorrow
13 hours ago
Mark Gurman: Apple Initially Aimed to Release iPhone Duo in November
Mark Gurman: Apple Initially Aimed to Release iPhone Duo in November
14 hours ago
Best Early Black Friday Deals on Apple Products Available Now
Best Early Black Friday Deals on Apple Products Available Now
14 hours ago
Apple Isn't Done With 2026: Here's What's Still Coming
Apple Isn't Done With 2026: Here's What's Still Coming
14 hours ago
Apple 'HomeView Ultra' With 9-Inch 360º Screen Detailed in New Report
Apple 'HomeView Ultra' With 9-Inch 360º Screen Detailed in New Report
14 hours ago
Apple TV 4K Pre-Order Discount Returns at Amazon
Apple TV 4K Pre-Order Discount Returns at Amazon
15 hours ago
Zoom and These Microsoft Apps Now Optimized for iPhone Duo
Zoom and These Microsoft Apps Now Optimized for iPhone Duo
15 hours ago
Canva Brings Free All-in-One Affinity App to iPad
Canva Brings Free All-in-One Affinity App to iPad
16 hours ago
iPhone Duo: Latest Buyer Wait Times
iPhone Duo: Latest Buyer Wait Times
17 hours ago
iPhone Duo Owners Can't Change Display Zoom After Setup
iPhone Duo Owners Can't Change Display Zoom After Setup
13 hours ago
Apple HomeView Could Double as a Security Camera
Apple HomeView Could Double as a Security Camera
20 hours ago
Apple Launching Five New Products This Friday
Apple Launching Five New Products This Friday
20 hours ago
Nearly Every M5 MacBook Air Now $200 Off on Amazon
Nearly Every M5 MacBook Air Now $200 Off on Amazon
2 days ago
Apple's HomeView Ships With Six-Month-Old Software
Apple's HomeView Ships With Six-Month-Old Software
2 days ago
Three New iPads Rumored to Launch in First Half of 2027
Three New iPads Rumored to Launch in First Half of 2027
2 days ago
Apple Offers Steps to Fix Daylight Saving Time Bug on Apple Watch
Apple Offers Steps to Fix Daylight Saving Time Bug on Apple Watch
2 days ago
Apple Watch Ultra 4 Hits All-Time Low Price With Amazon's $99 Discount
Apple Watch Ultra 4 Hits All-Time Low Price With Amazon's $99 Discount
3 days ago
Reminder: Apple's Big Discount on Beats 360 Ear Cushions Ends Today
Reminder: Apple's Big Discount on Beats 360 Ear Cushions Ends Today
3 days ago
Here's a New Tour of Apple's HomeView Software
Here's a New Tour of Apple's HomeView Software
3 days ago
Apple Reveals New iPad Mini's Battery Capacity
Apple Reveals New iPad Mini's Battery Capacity
3 days ago
Top Stories: Apple's Big MacBook Pro, iPad mini and iMac Updates
Top Stories: Apple's Big MacBook Pro, iPad mini and iMac Updates
3 days ago
'Pluribus' Season 2 Reportedly Starts Production Today
'Pluribus' Season 2 Reportedly Starts Production Today
3 days ago