A Closer Look at Apple's North Carolina Renewable Energy Power Plant

I don't care if it's a tax stunt, publicity stunt, or just for the bottom line, getting renewable energy more popular is a good thing for all of us, and I applaud Apple for doing this.

Or…. It could be the fact that when analyzed over the entire life of the system - including the cost and environmental impact to create the "green tech", and then at end of lifetime to properly dispose the "green tech", usually the "tech" isn't very "green" at all.

Like all new technologies (including oil going back a 100 years ago), it takes significant investment and infrastructure to start it. After technologies mature, the cost naturally comes down. How much resources does it take to build giant rigs to drill for oil, drill for oil, process the oil, build huge oil tankers to transport, build huge pipelines all over the country to distribute it, etc. Now that that whole system in place, it's hardly fair to compare it to a new alternative system that is just starting out.

You can bet that big business will not create an alternative unless there is a government pushing them to do so. There are a few exceptions like Apple and Tesla but for the most part, they don't.

For examples, look at our Food industries and Oil industries. What they are doing is horrible, yet they have bought out our government and use our taxes to give them benefits? Explain that one to me?

Why not give take away their subsidies and give it to alternative renewable power? This will increase the cost of oil, reduce the cost of alternatives. Why not take away subsidies from Monsanto and give it to local food producers. Those people that think organic is too expensive won't think so after fast food goes up in price and healthy organic places come down in price.

Oh and as a side benefit, America may just become a little heathier and some of our health care debates may just go away... After all the real problem with our healthcare is that we are sicker than ever....that is why the costs are high. No one wants to fix that, we just keep arguing about the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Anyways, I've gone too far off topic.

It frustrates me no end how so many now think that things just grow on trees, that they don't require painful gathering from natural resources and extensive, complicated, and often dirty acts of creation. Or that they naturally compost into the ground after it has run its course, and a butterfly sanctuary will magically pop up in its place.

One of the beautiful things about fossil fuels is that they are an energy source as well as an energy storage system. Say what you will about the businesses involved, but that's a really solid "green" built-in advantage for those forms of energy.

I agree with you that it's not free. But please don't make the argument that a hybrid or electric car is just as dirty as a regular car. Remember that what you see with the alternatives in their starting stages is worst case scenario. As they mature, they get even cleaner and cheaper. Oil on the other hand has little to no room for improvement.

Kan-O-Z

This is amazing. :D

And they call them... iSheep.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. ;)

Apple works with a company that provides sheep to eat the grass underneath the solar panels, an environmentally friendly alternative to mowing.

This is amazing. :D

Why the world is so anti-clean enegy is beyond me.

Price & reliability. Period.
I can either pay something like $100/month now and for the next 40 years while I earn it for cheap non-renewable (but abundant) electricity, or come up with $50,000 now for a "clean" system which I'll have to maintain and replace anyway in a couple decades.

Nobody objects to "clean energy" per se. It's the up-front costs, higher overall costs, personal maintenance, and unreliable availability. Electric cars are great, until you have to buy a new battery for $40,000. Solar power is great, until it's too cloudy too long and the buffer gives way and the "non-renewable" grid can't handle the prolonged backup load. Wind is great, until you see a turbine fail and discover nobody wants to fix it. Thorium is fantastically "clean", but nobody wants to even look in the direction of anything construed as "nuclear power".

Apple can pull it off because they've got truckloads of cash to pay for these systems up-front (and invest for indefinite self-supplied maintenance costs), large enough centers to make economy of scale work (tens of megawatts), stability & predictability (data centers), location flexibility (build it darn near _anywhere_), and isolation (just need a few people to run the place and a single massive data pipe in/out). When your standard deviations of usage clash with the standard deviations of flexibility, "clean" just doesn't work out yet.

I respect apple for this. Why the world is so anti-clean enegy is beyond me. It's not even like we resently knew things like oil were not only finte but bad for our planet, we have known for decades and decades.

Has been done for about 2000 years. Apple does it -> amazing

What's amazing is not that Apple is also using these technologies, it's that Apple uses them exclusively, which exponentially increase the cost. This is like a factory making sure to endlessly reuse all of the water they used.

Just for reference, for those unfamiliar with fuel cells:

The "stack" that needs replacing periodically is the fuel cell. I don't know the details of the units from this particular manufacturer, but a fuel cell unit will consist of an actual "stack" of individual fuel cells (a solid or molten membrane of some kind, support framework, and gas transport/diffusion plates and/or media), and then the rest of the ancillary equipment that makes it work--gas plumbing, electrical equipment to convert DC to AC, cooling radiators, etc.

But if you're being precise, the stack is the only actual fuel cell. It's the engine in the gasoline generator equivalent, it's just that we've taken to calling generators "engines" in the case of fuel cells.

They're usually a large part of the expense of the overall system, but the part that lets the electrochemical reaction work degrades over time, hence the need for replacement (or rebuilding with new electrochemical membranes, in some cases) periodically. How frequently differs wildly depending on the particular technology and how much the cells are used.

I respect apple for this. Why the world is so anti-clean enegy is beyond me. It's not even like we resently knew things like oil were not only finte but bad for our planet, we have known for decades and decades.

It's simple and disturbing at the same time. Big business will do anything to keep their business running strong, including destroying the earth and our health so they can continue to make profits. They will spend $$$ on lobbyists and buying up politicians to ensure that the laws promote their business and hinder any sort of alternative. Finally they will spend $$$ on brain washing people to support de-regulation of our government (telling people that the government takes away our freedom) to get people to vote for politicians that support de-regulation. De-regulation is great for them as it allows them to continue with their unethical practices to make even more money.

I ask one question: What are you going to do with all that money when we have no climate, food, water, or earth to live with?

To those that are big business supporters and anti government....just know that big business is even worse than big government. They leave you with little to no choice in what you eat, drink, buy and breathe. Unlike big government, they actually have an agenda...to make money at any cost.

I applaud Apple for doing this. I applaud companies like Tesla to create our modern electric car. Times will change soon.

Kan-O-Z

Price & reliability. Period.
I can either pay something like $100/month now and for the next 40 years while I earn it for cheap non-renewable (but abundant) electricity, or come up with $50,000 now for a "clean" system which I'll have to maintain and replace anyway in a couple decades.

In 10-15 states you can lease a solar system for no money down and save money on day 1...the innovation isn't technology it's financing.

I don't live in one of those states but for $4,000 I cover 75% of my electricity for the next 20 years...it's not $50,000.