Apple Offers Statement on Warranty Disclosures to Italian Customers

Great to see that they follow the law. In any case I guess it is much easier to get stuff repaired if you have AppleCare. At least I buy it most of the times for my MacBooks.

No offense but it's stupid to pay if laws are giving you the same rights. I know that some countries, especially the US, don't have such laws but in countries that have, you should just take advantage of the legal system. Otherwise we wouldn't have lawsuits like this and companies would keep ripping off people.

How can you call a hyperlink of font size 10 in black prominent... Sure is in the middle on top of pictures of the items, but it should be at least in red and in bigger letters or with a border like MR created for the pic :roll eyes:

No offense but it's stupid to pay if laws are giving you the same rights. I know that some countries, especially the US, don't have such laws but in countries that have, you should just take advantage of the legal system. Otherwise we wouldn't have lawsuits like this and companies would keep ripping off people.

The laws, even in Italy, don't give you _the same_ rights. They just give you slightly better rights then you might think.

Apple warranty: 1 year unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.
AppleCare: 3 years unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.

The Law: 6 months unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.
A reasonable time / 2 years in Italy if you show that the problem isn't your fault.

So the law gives you more than Apple's warranty, but less than AppleCare. The point is that Apple should have told customers that they have more rights than Apple's warranty, but that doesn't make AppleCare worthless.

Once again:

Apple warranty: 1 year unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.
AppleCare: 3 years unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.

The Law: 6 months unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.
A reasonable time / 2 years in Portugal if you show that the problem isn't your fault.

Can you see the tiny tiny little detail "if you show that the problem isn't your fault"? I'll just tell you that you would lose any lawsuit _unless the seller refused to fix problems after you proved it wasn't your fault_.

I'm glad that you know so much about Portuguese law... ;)

Pitty that you are a bit on the wrong side... :P


1st) The article 5 of the Warranty Decree is self explanatory... There is no six months period in Portugal... We have only one single window of 2 years (or 5 depending on the product).

2nd) During those 2 years, the burden of proof that it was (or was not) damage induced by the customer belongs to the manufacter not the customer. I don't have to prove anything. (art. 6 of the Warranty Decree)

3rd) The article 12 in the costumer law says that even if its not the manufacter fault, i can still try to activate the warranty aslong it complies within the warranty decree.

4th) On a side note, we also have a 2 month period where we can and we should complain about manufacturing defects and if any defect is from manufacturing and its a severe defect, we can replace the product for a new one during that period.



Anyway here is the costumer law (in Portuguese):

http://www.acra.pt/_pdf/LEI_DO_CONSUMIDOR.pdf


the warranty decree (again in Portuguese):

http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/2003/04/083A00/22802283.PDF


And here is another decree about financial and comercial fairplay:

http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/2007/03/06000/17361739.PDF

No offense but it's stupid to pay if laws are giving you the same rights. I know that some countries, especially the US, don't have such laws but in countries that have, you should just take advantage of the legal system. Otherwise we wouldn't have lawsuits like this and companies would keep ripping off people.

I pay because the law is absolutely not giving you the same rights. First, there is a difference between the guarantee from the manufacturer and the warranty from the law. Usually the manufacturer provides one year of guarantee, after that there is an additional 1 year (so two years in total) in which the manufacturer has to repair in case the problem was already there when the product was shipped ( no wear out of connectors etc...) and it is up to the customer to prove that !!! In Germany there are two different terms (Garantie and Gewahrleistung). The law gives you two years of Gewahrleistung not Garantie. I don't know the correct corresponding English terms, here is more info. (http://www.anwalt-seiten.de/artikel/sec1/221.html)

With AppleCare you get 3 years trouble free service and you can much more easily sell the unit on eBay because people know if they receive a unit with any problem they just call Apple and they will fix it.

Prices look really high, can anyone else in a eurozone country confirm that those prices are much higher than normal? 120 Euro for ATV is really expensive and it looks like Apple has just rolled that extra year of warranty into the prices.

Euro prices have VAT included in them, while the US prices are tax-free (sales tax will be added depending on the state).

Apple should take the argument to the consumers and see if they really want to pay for these laws. Raise the price of every item to include (or almost include) the price of AppleCare and change the branding to say "Now with AppleCare included". Then when people ask about the increased prices, point the finger towards the Italian government and say that this is what the government, and the people by proxy, have asked for and we've merely provided your wishes.

Money doesn't come from nowhere, somebody has to pay the increased costs associated with these laws, and in truth, it's already the consumers who are footing the bill. Of course, that's a politicians worst nightmare: pointing out the concept of cause-and-effect of all of their ideas.

Agree! Phawking Commie Libs!

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I think this is all stupid. It's pretty freaking clear what the warranty vs AppleCare covers. If Italians are too stupid to figure it out then Apple should closes its doors, stop doing business in a place where ignorance gets to sue you for 1.2 million.:mad:

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Yeah, god forbid a company posting recording breaking profits year after year follow law of the place they do business and NOT stick it to their customers and then point the finger at the government. This isn't about "taking profits" away from Apple, its realizing they are still doing FINE selling their products in territories that have stronger consumer protection laws and shouldn't get into some petty pissig match with the law makers of that country.

They did follow the law. Italy is just nit picking, because Apple has made money and they want their greedy little commie hands on it. They need someone to fit the bill for their failed government and liberal spending spree.

Apple should take the argument to the consumers and see if they really want to pay for these laws. Raise the price of every item to include (or almost include) the price of AppleCare and change the branding to say "Now with AppleCare included". Then when people ask about the increased prices, point the finger towards the Italian government and say that this is what the government, and the people by proxy, have asked for and we've merely provided your wishes.

Money doesn't come from nowhere, somebody has to pay the increased costs associated with these laws, and in truth, it's already the consumers who are footing the bill. Of course, that's a politicians worst nightmare: pointing out the concept of cause-and-effect of all of their ideas.

Yeah, god forbid a company posting recording breaking profits year after year follow law of the place they do business and NOT stick it to their customers and then point the finger at the government. This isn't about "taking profits" away from Apple, its realizing they are still doing FINE selling their products in territories that have stronger consumer protection laws and shouldn't get into some petty pissig match with the law makers of that country.

...Seems to be the same size and bolding than the product names themselves, and in the very top of the page. Isn't that prominent?

Which is why is not prominent since its lost with the rest of the titles. By definition something prominent is something that stands out so as to be seen easily from the rest, that projects or is protuberant. ;)

<blink> FTW!

:D When I read it I was expecting something with bigger letters or at least some color.

I pay because the law is absolutely not giving you the same rights. First, there is a difference between the guarantee from the manufacturer and the warranty from the law. Usually the manufacturer provides one year of guarantee, after that there is an additional 1 year (so two years in total) in which the manufacturer has to repair in case the problem was already there when the product was shipped ( no wear out of connectors etc...) and it is up to the customer to prove that !!! In Germany there are two different terms (Garantie and Gewahrleistung). The law gives you two years of Gewahrleistung not Garantie. I don't know the correct corresponding English terms, here is more info. (http://www.anwalt-seiten.de/artikel/sec1/221.html)

With AppleCare you get 3 years trouble free service and you can much more easily sell the unit on eBay because people know if they receive a unit with any problem they just call Apple and they will fix it.

That's what our law says too, but it's not the way it "works" in real life. Nobody is expecting you to be able to take the machine apart and somehow magically prove that the GPU was busted. Nobody has the equipment for that. What you might have to show is that there is no physical damage that could have broken the machine, i.e. no dents, cracks, spills etc. If your GPU dies, it's pretty obvious that it's the manufacturer's fault, unless you spilled something on it. If you have a huge dent/crack on the machine and go complain about a malfunctioning USB port, then it's different.

I've gotten several devices fixed using our laws. Nobody has ever asked me to "prove" that I didn't break it.