Power5 at Microprocessor Forum 2003

originally posted by Macrumors
...it is unlikely that the Power5 will find it's way into Apple-built computers...

Now do you mean it's unlikely that the Power5 itself will find it's way into next generation Macs or that it's unlikely that next generation processors will even be based on the Power5 at all? I would think it very likely that the 980 (or whatever it'll be called) will be based on the Power5.

Rustus

The POWER (Performance Optimized with Enhanced RISC) series is definitely moving forward. They definitely have POWER5 systems in test. The POWER5 is as much for scientific computing (it will be used in the IBM ASCI Purple machine for the DOE) as for banks and large enterprise servers.

However, I am a bit surprised they are presenting on the POWER5 as they usually present on things which are in design and will be shipping within the next 6 months to a year. If I remember correctly, IBM likes to put out teaser presentations at this conference. Since the POWER5 CPU will have been in test for well over 4 months by the time of the presentation maybe they are expecting significant performace gainse over the POWER4 CPU and plan on announcing the results from these test machines then.

Also there have been lots of rumors about concurrent development of a PowerPC being derived from the POWER5. Maybe there will be some semi-official statement made then too. It would be nice to hear.

Additionally, when they do create the PowerPC derivative of the POWER5, I hope they do an updated version of the vector processor and its associated on chip registers, etc. The vector processor in the PowerPC 970 -- while a screamer compared to competing chips -- was just sort of "tacked on" and it is not as advanced in architecture as some of the G4s have. Hopefully, with more time and foresight they will do a better one when they do the POWER5 derivative.

Originally posted by Rustus Maximus
Now do you mean it's unlikely that the Power5 itself will find it's way into next generation Macs or that it's unlikely that next generation processors will even be based on the Power5 at all? I would think it very likely that the 980 (or whatever it'll be called) will be based on the Power5.

Rustus

"As a replacement for the Power4, it is unlikely that the Power5 will find it's way into Apple-built computers, however, rumors have hinted that Apple may benefit from Power5-derived technology in the future"

I have to wonder if AltVec is being incorporated into Power5. It seems like that would be the easest path to follow to also have Altvec in the desktop chip Apple would use. This would also offer Apple the oportunity to offer a wide range of servers of differrent class hardware.

As far as the 4X improvement I also wonder if Apple will be able to get that out of the single chip version. It would be a stunning accomplishment especuially if that 4X is based on clock to clock comparisons.

All in all things haven't looked this good in Mac land in sometime. Well as long as you don't look at the 7457 issue.

thanks
Dave

Do we think that the Power5 could be the basis for a broader step up for Apple's XServe line?

If Apple's current technology is based on the Power4 and the Power5 may be suitable for enterprise server use, is it too simplistic to think that it would be a useful starting point if Apple wanted to give medium-large sized businesses that are too large for XServe an all-Apple alternative?

Originally posted by idea_hamster
Do we think that the Power5 could be the basis for a broader step up for Apple's XServe line?

No. Even the POWER4 would be a troublesome marketing message.

Apple has committed far too much intellectual capital to AltiVec to embrace a non-AltiVec high end processor. Even for a server, Apple is boasting about BLAST and other rendering apps that require AltiVec.

Even if the POWER5 does get AltiVec, its timing is too far out for the Xserve - something must be done sooner.

An update of a 1U Xserver to PPC970 would be good. It would also be a great idea to come out with a larger server, say a 3U or 4U quad-PPC970 system for those medium-sized businesses. Give it more slots, more memory, more CPUs - AND MORE REDUNDANCY (dual power supplies, ECC or RAID memory, hot-swap disks, hot-swap RAM, hot-swap everything).

Originally posted by wizard
I have to wonder if AltVec is being incorporated into Power5. It seems like that would be the easest path to follow to also have Altvec in the desktop chip Apple would use.

I don't think the Power4 has Altivec but its derivative, the 970, does. So just because Altivec is not on the Power5 does not mean it won't be on the derivative chip (980?).

Originally posted by arn
"As a replacement for the Power4, it is unlikely that the Power5 will find it's way into Apple-built computers, however, rumors have hinted that Apple may benefit from Power5-derived technology in the future"

Nooowwwww I get it...

I get it...

I get things... ;)

(hey it was early when I was reading this :) )

Thanks arn,

Rustus

That Apple and IBM have concurrent development of the POWER5 and a derivative(PPC 980?) going.

This way the P5 hits and within 6 months the Derivative ships as well. The 970 will probably top out at 3Ghz so Apple will need this Derivative to take over from there on.

I'm hoping for ondie memory controllers and SMT. Beefed up Altivec would be nice.

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Give it more slots, more memory, more CPUs - AND MORE REDUNDANCY (dual power supplies, ECC or RAID memory, hot-swap disks, hot-swap RAM, hot-swap everything).

Wow -- I didn't realize that the XServe is missing so many features that even I knew to be available on servers in general (e.g., ECC).


So who is the target market for XServe? -- that is, who wants a server but doesn't need this kind of redundancy or hot maintenance?